Dr. John Vervaeke and Greg Thomas engage in a nuanced conversation that spans the realms of philosophy, music, and culture. With an emphasis on the blues, jazz, and democracy, they examine how to be a "radical moderate" in today's polarized society. They explore the rich interplay between music and philosophy, delving into topics such as the sacredness of music, the musicality of being, and the role of music in democracy. Their collaborative spirit is a testament to the transformative power of cross-disciplinary dialogue. As they tackle topics like race, culture, and cosmic responsibility, they bring fresh insights into how we can harmonize disparate elements of human experience.

Resources

Greg Thomas: Website | X | YouTube

John Vervaeke: Website | Patreon | Facebook | X | YouTube

The Vervaeke Foundation

Jazz Leadership Project

Jazz Leadership Project Blog

Hemingway, Politics, and Wisdom

Charlie Parker’s Higher Octave

Can Civic Jazz Resolve Our American Dilemma?

Greg Thomas — YouTube

Greg Thomas: “The Ralph Ellison-Albert Murray Continuum”

Voices with Vervaeke — YouTube

Aletheia Coaching - profound self-unfoldment rather than self-improvement w/ Steve March

John Vervaeke & Greg Thomas Series:

Jazz as Embodied Art and an Ecology of Practice | Deep Dive: Race, Culture, Jazz, and Democracy #1

Democracy as Antagonistic Cooperation for E Pluribus Unum

Race Versus Cultural Intelligence: The Agent Arena Relationship

Transcendent Naturalism Series:

The Cognitive Science Show

Towards a Metapsychology that is true to Transformation w/ Gregg Henriques and Zachary Stein

Podcasts

The Integral Stage - Bruce Alderman / Layman Pascal

Straight Ahead - The Omni-American Podcast

Deep Transformation Podcast

Books

A Spirit of Trust: A Reading of Hegel’s Phenomenology - Robert B. Brandom

Danielle Allen Books:

Our Declaration: A Reading of the Declaration of Independence in Defense of Equality

Justice by Means of Democracy

Talking to Strangers: Anxieties of Citizenship since Brown v. Board of Education

Why Plato Wrote

Bearing Witness to Epiphany: Persons, Things, and the Nature of Erotic Life - John Russon

Amazon.com: Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being: Relation as Ontological Ground - James Filler

Recapture the Rapture: Rethinking God, Sex, and Death in a World That's Lost Its Mind - Jamie Wheal

The Republic by Plato - The Internet Classics Archive

Civic Jazz: American Music and Kenneth Burke on the Art of Getting Along - Gregory Clark

Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert A. Heinlein

The Soul's Code: In Search of Character and Calling - James Hillman

A Pluralistic Universe - William James

Habits of Whiteness: A Pragmatist Reconstruction - Terrance MacMullan

The Omni-Americans: Some Alternatives to the Folklore of White Supremacy - Albert Murray

Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds - Thomas Hübl

My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies - Resmaa Menakem

The Monster's Journey: From Trauma to Connection - Mark Forman PhD

Publications

Dan Chiappe & John Vervaeke, The enactment of shared agency in teams exploring Mars through rovers - PhilPapers

Music

Kind Of Blue | Miles Davis

Miscellaneous

Blue Sky Leaders Certificate Program | CIIS

Beyond Nihilism | Halkyon Academy

Aletheia Coach

“Body and Soul”--Coleman Hawkins (1939)

Theory of collective mind: Trends in Cognitive Sciences

Rooted Cosmopolitans - Kwame Anthony Appiah

People

Timecodes

00: 00:00 — Dr. John Vervaeke kicks off the episode by introducing Greg Thomas and sharing the focus of their conversation: blues, jazz, democracy, and the concept of the radical moderate.

00: 01:08 — Greg Thomas reveals the overwhelmingly positive feedback they've both received from their past dialogues.

00:08:00 — Greg Thomas announces his newest ventures—a brand new podcast and memoir, both destined to challenge cultural norms.

00:11:40 — Dr. John Vervaeke responds to Greg's question by explaining the distinction between universe and cosmos and how we transform universe into cosmos.

00:13:00 — Vervaeke talks about reviving the sacred in our lives, creating a ripple in the very fabric of our collective mindset.

00:15:40 — Dr. John Vervaeke introduces a philosophical debate: the nature of humanity’s relationship with the universe. He expresses why we shouldn't be the center of our cosmos.

00:18:00 — Reflecting on the sacredness of blues and jazz, and their role in American culture, Greg Thomas shares his experience with Michael James, Duke Ellington's nephew, who helped him deepen his knowledge of jazz and its history.

00:22:00 — Thomas explains the horizontal and vertical approaches to jazz improvisation through the examples of Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young, and how Charlie Parker synthesized these approaches.

00:27:40 — Vervaeke delves into the historical connections between music, mathematics, and geometry, referencing the Pythagorean and Platonic traditions.

00:32:00 — The discussion moves towards overcoming the subjective-objective and one-many dichotomies, leading to a non-duality in both the horizontal and vertical dimensions.

00:41:20 — Greg Thomas talks about the importance of cultivating the ability to be in relation in groups towards positive ends. He also introduces the idea of a positive way of looking at cults.

00:47:01 — Dr. Vervaeke explains the concept of vacillating between the poles of individuation and participation, and how our culture often forces us to emphasize one over the other.

00:54:38 — Using the example of global warming to illustrate the need for collective intelligence, Vervaeke explains that it requires a global effort and the use of various psychotechnologies to track and understand.

00:59:22 — Sharing an insightful quote from Ralph Ellison about choosing one's ancestors, Greg Thomas interprets it as choosing those who influence and inspire us, regardless of bloodline.

01:08:00 — Thomas prompts Dr. Vervaeke to discuss the concept of virtue, leading to an exploration of what constitutes a good human life.

01:15:00 — Dr. Vervaeke and Greg Thomas discuss the need to shift from a reification mindset to a relationality mindset in regard to race.

01:20:46 — Because of the pertinence and the sophistication of the way in which this series is trying to address some of our most burning issues right now, Vervaeke and Thomas encourage listeners to share it with others.

Deep Dive: Race, Culture, Jazz, and Democracy #4 with Greg Thomas

Dr. John Vervaeke