This podcast episode interviews Coco Krumme, author of "Optimal Illusions," to discuss optimization—its technical definition, cultural implications, benefits, and drawbacks. The conversation explores optimization's role in various fields like agriculture and supply chains, highlighting both its positive impacts (e.g., cheaper food) and negative consequences (e.g., decreased food quality, system fragility). Krumme and the host also debate the challenges of "opting out" of an increasingly optimized world and the intersection of AI with optimization processes, concluding that while AI offers potential efficiencies, its impact is currently overhyped. The discussion emphasizes the importance of considering the trade-offs inherent in optimization and the limitations of applying a purely mathematical approach to all aspects of life.