This Odd Lots podcast episode features an interview with Jennifer Pahlka, author of "Recoding America," discussing the inefficiencies and challenges within government spending and hiring processes. The hosts and Pahlka explore the reasons behind government's repeated audit failures, attributing them to overly complex systems and a resistance to simplifying processes. Pahlka details the cumbersome government hiring process, highlighting how it often prioritizes adherence to rigid rules over assessing candidates' actual skills, using the example of a highly skilled cybersecurity expert who struggled to get hired due to his resume not matching the generic job description. The discussion also touches upon the difficulties of firing underperforming government employees and the need for disruptive change to improve efficiency. Ultimately, the episode offers insights into the systemic issues hindering effective government operations and suggests potential avenues for reform.