This podcast episode explores the intertwined nature of philosophy and religion, using the "duck-rabbit" optical illusion as a metaphor for different ways of perceiving reality. The host discusses the limitations of a purely rational, dualistic worldview and contrasts it with a more experiential, embodied understanding, drawing heavily on the work of Keiji Nishitani and his interpretation of Zen Buddhism. He then introduces the philosopher Frederick Schelling, whose work on absolute nothingness and the evolution of religious consciousness is analyzed. The episode concludes by highlighting Nishitani's critique of Schelling while emphasizing the importance of integrating philosophical inquiry with religious practice for a more complete understanding of reality. The specific example of the duck-rabbit illustrates how different perspectives can coexist and even require each other.