This podcast episode interviews Jonathan Rugman about Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia. The discussion traces MBS's rise to power, highlighting controversial actions like the Yemen war and the Ritz-Carlton arrests, alongside his efforts at modernization and diversification of the Saudi economy. The interview also covers MBS's relationship with Donald Trump and Jared Kushner, his role in recent Ukraine peace talks, and the evolving international perception of him, from "pariah" to key diplomatic player. A key takeaway is the dramatic transformation of Saudi Arabia under MBS, from a relatively closed society to one embracing foreign tourism and a more liberal social environment, though concerns about human rights remain. The episode concludes by exploring the complex and multifaceted nature of MBS's leadership and his ambition to establish Saudi Arabia as a major global power.
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