This episode explores the nature of conscience, its potential distinction in AI systems versus humans, and its relationship to a hierarchical structure of values. The discussion begins with a challenge to the idea that voluntary self-sacrifice is the unifying metanarrative, proposing instead that sacrifice serves the pursuit of what is most real. Against this backdrop, the conversation delves into the concept of a "vertical dimension" of value, using the example of accepting a podcast invitation to illustrate nested reasons and superordinate goals. More significantly, the panelists discuss the role of perception and emotion in navigating towards a transcendent goal, even when it remains unspecified, drawing parallels to the Sermon on the Mount and the concept of "perspectival knowing." As the discussion pivoted to the nature of evil, the concept of self-deception as a driver of self-destruction is introduced, leading to an examination of the distinction between pathological and existential conscience. Ultimately, the episode highlights the importance of maintaining a balance between finitude and transcendence, emphasizing the role of humility, play, and hospitality in navigating towards a higher good and fostering a more integrated and stable society. What this means for understanding the dynamics of social interaction and the potential for creating more meaningful and less self-destructive systems is a key takeaway.