New @greenpillnet pod out today! 🌐

In this episode of the VDAO x Greenpill Antifragile Network States mini-series, host Kris Miller talks with Rob Avis, a permaculture educator, systems thinker, and co-founder of Fifth World.

Rob shares his journey from industrial food and oil & gas to regenerative design, and explains how nature, decentralization, and appropriate technology can help humanity build antifragile food, energy, and water systems.
They explore regeneration, feedback loops, digital tools, beaver-built ecosystems, community resilience, and how to inspire the next generation of earth stewards.

A deeply optimistic, practical, and inspiring conversation for anyone building toward a resilient future.

🌱 greenpill.network
🌐 fifthworld.io
vdao.org
https://x.com/JoinVDAO
https://x.com/rob_5thworld
https://x.com/greenpillnet

🌐 Timestamps

00:00 – Cold Start
01:15 – Rob Avis joins the show
01:38 – Childhood roots: seeing the Amazon rainforest destroyed
04:01 – Cutting down forests in oil & gas the turning point
06:20 – Traveling the world to study energy, food & water systems
08:04 – Cheesecake factories, industrial food & system awareness
09:45 – What antifragility really means
12:06 – The three states: fragile, resilient, antifragile
13:43 – Human body as an antifragile system
16:08 – Ecosystems as antifragile, syntropic systems
18:18 – Why "sustainability" is not enough
20:07 – Regeneration: leaving systems better than we found them
22:17 – The beaver example; disturbance as healing
24:00 – Humans as positive ecological disruptors
25:42 – The "woo-woo" critique of regenerative movements
28:04 – Pragmatic regen: examples from large-scale farmers
30:28 – Using appropriate tools not dogma
32:51 – Global regeneration examples (Saudi, India, China)
35:09 – Land vs tech: bridging permaculture and crypto cultures
36:58 – 10,000 years of "deforest, plow, desertify"
39:24 – How digital tools enable better ecological feedback
41:51 – Tech vs nature: design the right balance
44:00 – Vitalik's techno-optimism & defensive accelerationism
45:19 – Decentralization as a natural principle
47:01 – From activist to humanist
49:00 – Everything gardens — humans included
51:18 – The biggest challenge: changing mindsets
53:29 – Fifth World: decentralized food, energy & water systems
55:48 – Case study: regenerating a desert property into abundance
58:14 – Why people crave reconnection with land & nature
59:57 – How urban renters can start (the Apple Harvest story)
01:02:37 – Community orchards & urban abundance
01:04:41 – Inspiration vs fear: how to steer the canoe
01:06:48 – Healing ourselves to heal ecosystems
01:09:09 – Bridging crypto + nature: governance & invisible structures
01:11:33 – A call for collaboration (real-world builders hackathon?)
01:13:22 – Regeneration as enlightened self-interest
01:14:40 – Final thoughts: do we want to be on the extinction list?

VDAO Ep.3 Designing Antifragile Systems Regeneration, Nature & Decentralization with Rob Avis

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