37. Spies, with Ben MacIntyre

In this episode of The Rest Is History, Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook host Ben MacIntyre to discuss the history of espionage. They explore the relationship between British fiction and espionage, the impact of spies on historical events like WWII and the Cold War, and the moral ambiguities of spies like Gordievsky and Philby. The conversation touches on famous operations such as Operation Mincemeat and the D-Day deception, the role of female spies like Agent Sonya, and the shift from human intelligence to cyber warfare. MacIntyre emphasizes that while most espionage cancels itself out, it can occasionally have a strategic impact, and he highlights the challenges of uncovering modern spy stories due to the ephemeral nature of digital communication and the secrecy of intelligence agencies.