Many AI startups funded in the last 18 months won't last three years - so what makes a business durable today?

Yaniv Bernstein is joined by Marlon Nichols, co-founder and managing general partner of MaC Venture Capital - one of the most active seed-stage AI investors in the market, having scaled MaC to over $600M AUM across three funds in just four years. Marlon's portfolio includes Pipe, Stoke Space, Thrive Market, Chef Robotics, and exits like Wonder Dynamics to Autodesk and Gimlet Media to Spotify.

In this conversation, Marlon uses his industry experience to explain the biggest threats to new AI startups, and what the key components of successful startups in the industry will be.

In this episode, you will:

Hear why Marlon thinks niche or mid-size foundational models are now prime acquisition targets for OpenAI
Discover why misreading traction is the #1 mistake VCs are making right now
Learn why Marlon is more excited about manufacturing-line prediction and grid-scale batteries than humanoid robots
Explore why founder unit economics need a complete rewrite when token costs replace SaaS-style marginal cost
Understand why software is no longer a moat — and why data access, deep customer integration, and speed are the only three durable advantages left at the application layer
Learn the difference between AI-native companies and AI-bolted-on companies, and what a 5-year-old startup should do if it's on the wrong side of that line

Timestamps

00:00 Coming Up

01:07 On Today's Show: Durable Tech

02:33 Meet Marlon Nichols

03:25 Defining 'Durable' AI Startups

05:23 Moats for Foundation Models

07:15 Chef Robotics and AI Native vs AI Enabled

09:24 Upgrading Legacy Startups

10:55 Pipe’s AI Pivot Case Study

13:19 Winning at the App Layer

15:56 Speed and Workflow Stickiness

17:51 Investment Checklist and Team

20:30 Automotive Digital Twins and Regulatory Testing

24:27 Why Physical AI?

26:09 Robotics In Manufacturing

26:55 Energy Storage And Batteries

28:30 Why Cheaper Builds Still Need Talent

30:19 Where Traction Can Be Misleading

33:41 Token Costs And Unit Economics

36:46 Closing Thoughts

Mentioned in this episode

MaC Venture Capital: https://macventurecapital.com/
Marlon Nichols on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marloncnichols/
'The Bitter Lesson' by Rich Sutton: http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html
Vera (Yaniv's startup, AI-supported guidance for people caring for ageing parents): https://vera.guide/

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Key links

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Learn more about Chris and Yaniv

Work 1:1 with Chris: http://chrissaad.com/advisory/

Follow Chris on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissaad/

Follow Yaniv on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ybernstein/

Producer: Justin McArthur https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-mcarthur

Assistant Producer: Steph Hefferan https://www.linkedin.com/in/steph-heff/

Intro Voice: Jeremiah Owyang https://web-strategist.com/

Adapting your startup to an AI-native world (w/ Marlon Nichols)

The Startup Podcast