This podcast discusses the unexpected release of DeepSeek's R1 large language model (LLM) by a Chinese hedge fund and its impact on the AI industry. The hosts and guests analyze the model's performance, open-source licensing, and low development cost, comparing it to the trajectory of the internet and previous technological advancements. They debate whether the focus should remain on large models or shift to the application layer, highlighting the importance of licensing and the potential for new, unforeseen applications to emerge. A key takeaway is the need for a shift in AI policy away from restrictive measures towards fostering innovation and competition. The discussion concludes by emphasizing the positive-sum nature of the AI landscape and the potential for significant growth in the application layer.