This NPR Indicator podcast episode interviews Kate Dario about the controversial US Department of Agriculture's wildlife damage management program, which spends millions annually killing coyotes. The interview reveals that this lethal method may be counterproductive, increasing coyote populations due to compensatory reproduction and the ecological principle of *oru vacui* (nature abhors a vacuum). The discussion also explores the historical context of this program, tracing its origins to the early 20th century and highlighting the shift from wolf eradication to coyote control. Finally, the podcast presents evidence suggesting non-lethal methods, like better fencing and guard dogs, are more effective and that the decline in the sheep industry is not solely due to coyote predation. The USDA's lack of response to inquiries about the program's effectiveness underscores the ongoing debate surrounding its cost-effectiveness and environmental impact.